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Traveller-digest      Friday, November 5 1999      Volume 1999 : Number 1313<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.<BR>
All rights reserved.<BR>
<BR>
The following topics are covered in this digest:<BR>
<BR>
Re: Dragon Magazine Archive<BR>
Re: Dragon Magazine Archive<BR>
Klingon Software Quality Assurance (fwd)<BR>
Re: Common Weaponry (was RE: [OT] One Day In Peace)<BR>
Re: Dragon Magazine Archive<BR>
Re: Border Guards<BR>
Re: GT Starship gearheadedness<BR>
Re: Anybody get Digest 1300?<BR>
Re: Common Weaponry (was RE: [OT] One Day In Peace)<BR>
Re: Solomani Rim data<BR>
Vs: Glitches after maintenance<BR>
Nonhuman languages [was: Re Names [Semi OT]]<BR>
Cultural Euphemisms (Was Subject: RE: Violent Outlet)<BR>
Re: Middle Eastern Cyberpunk<BR>
Re: Dragon Magazine Archive<BR>
Re: Islamic Observances in Interstellar Space (Was: Re: [OT] Cultural Differences)<BR>
Re: Islamic Observances in Interstellar Space (Was: Re: [OT] Cultural Differences)<BR>
Re: Hanging more than once<BR>
Re: Re: A Well-Regulated Militia<BR>
Re: Islamic Observances in Interstellar Space<BR>
Re: Wild blue claims<BR>
Cons On Ice Scenario Idea (was Re: Border Guards)<BR>
<BR>
----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 5 Nov 1999 09:29:53 -0500<BR>
From: "Jory Earl" <j-man@iname.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Dragon Magazine Archive<BR>
<BR>
>What exactly is this? A CD?<BR>
<BR>
Leonard, it is a 5-CD set with the entire 250 issues of Dragon Magazine in<BR>
.pdf format.  Nothing has been omitted from the magazines including the<BR>
flyers and advertisements.  the magazines all appear exactly as they did<BR>
when published.  The CD comes with it's own browser but I think you'll find<BR>
just exploring it on your own to be better.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
___________________________________________________________<BR>
 J-Man<BR>
 ICQ# 2843475<BR>
 New Hampshire - U.S.A.<BR>
 Email : j-man@iname.com<BR>
 Home Page : http://www.geocities.com/~jman037/<BR>
___________________________________________________________<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 5 Nov 1999 09:31:12 -0500<BR>
From: "Jory Earl" <j-man@iname.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Dragon Magazine Archive<BR>
<BR>
I'm curious, was Dragon Magazine the only place the Traveller serivce known<BR>
as "IBIS" ever showed up?<BR>
___________________________________________________________<BR>
 J-Man<BR>
 ICQ# 2843475<BR>
 New Hampshire - U.S.A.<BR>
 Email : j-man@iname.com<BR>
 Home Page : http://www.geocities.com/~jman037/<BR>
___________________________________________________________<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 5 Nov 1999 09:37:20 -0500 (EST)<BR>
From: Charles Collin <charles@hebb.psych.mcgill.ca><BR>
Subject: Klingon Software Quality Assurance (fwd)<BR>
<BR>
Okay, this is a little OT, but it involves computers and aliens, so I<BR>
thought it'd be okay.  Besides, it's really funny...<BR>
<BR>
Charles. C.<BR>
<BR>
- ----- Original Message -----<BR>
<BR>
> Klingon Software Quality Assurance<BR>
> The top 12 things likely to be overheard if you had Klingon programmers<BR>
> working for you:<BR>
><BR>
> 12) Specifications are for the weak and timid!!<BR>
> 11) This machine is a piece of GAGH! I need dual Pentium processors if I<BR>
> am to do battle with this code.<BR>
> 10) You cannot really apprecaite Dilbert unless you've read it in the<BR>
> original Klingon.<BR>
> 9) Indentation?! I will show you how to indent when I indent your skull!<BR>
> 8) What is this talk of 'release'? Klingons do not make software<BR>
> 'releases'. Our software escapes, leaving a bloody trail of designers and<BR>
> quality assurance people in its wake!<BR>
> 7) Klingon function calls do not have "parameters" - they have<BR>
> "arguments"- and they ALWAYS WIN THEM<BR>
> 6) Debugging? Klingons do not debug. Our software does not coddle the<BR>
> weak.<BR>
> 5) I have challenged the entire Quality Assurance team to a Bat-Leh<BR>
> contest! They will not concern us again.<BR>
> 4) A TRUE Klingon warrior does not comment his code.<BR>
> 3) By filing this bug report you have challenged the honor of my family.<BR>
> Prepare to die!<BR>
> 2) You question the worthiness of my code? I should kill you where you<BR>
> stand!<BR>
> 1) Our users will know fear and cower before our software! Ship it! Ship<BR>
> it and let them flee like the dogs they are!<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 5 Nov 1999 08:41:51 -0600 <BR>
From: "Smart, David J (David)" <dasmart@lucent.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Common Weaponry (was RE: [OT] One Day In Peace)<BR>
<BR>
Leonard Erickson reminded me:<BR>
><BR>
>In mail you write:<BR>
><BR>
>> Mark Urbin posted:<BR>
>>><BR>
>>>As the nice man said in Spinal Tap, "Sometimes it's just handy to have a <BR>
>>>solid piece of wood about."   Ok, so it's not a direct quote, but you get<BR>
<BR>
>>>the idea...<BR>
>><BR>
>> Miyamoto Musashi would agree with you. <BR>
>><BR>
>> However, the most common and easily accessible weapon in the universe is<BR>
a<BR>
>> rock. (Recommended by 9 out 10 Aslan in comfy shoes).<BR>
><BR>
>No, the most common weapon is your own body. :-)<BR>
<BR>
Good gawd, there's *that* many of me running around the universe?!?<BR>
<BR>
;-)<BR>
<BR>
I've been in rock fights in high school and sparred black belts when I<BR>
studied<BR>
Tae Kwon Do in college.<BR>
<BR>
Though there are infinitely more rocks in the universe than black belts, I'd<BR>
rather be hit by a rock. <BR>
<BR>
At least they usually hit you only once.<BR>
<BR>
David<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 5 Nov 1999 15:41:45 +0000<BR>
From: "Carlos Alos-Ferrer" <carlos.alos-ferrer@univie.ac.at><BR>
Subject: Re: Dragon Magazine Archive<BR>
<BR>
> I'm curious, was Dragon Magazine the only place the Traveller serivce known<BR>
> as "IBIS" ever showed up?<BR>
<BR>
I am even more curious: what was IBIS? Or was it IRIS? <ducking><BR>
Carlos Alos-Ferrer <BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 05 Nov 1999 07:45:13 -0700<BR>
From: cos 90 <cos90@powersurfr.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Border Guards<BR>
<BR>
>Well, I don't know if this can happen in the USA or anywhere else,<BR>
>but there was a murder here in Norway, were in the criminal case, the<BR>
>kid (who was charged of killing his cousine) was found not quilty, while<BR>
>when the killed girls parents brought him up on civil charges, they<BR>
>were awarded several hundred thousand Norwegian kroner. <BR>
><BR>
>Not guilty, son, but you still have to pay.<BR>
<BR>
Isn't that more or less what happened with O.J. Simpson?<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
     Glenn St-Germain  Edmonton, Alberta, Canada <BR>
cos90@powersurfr.com  http://plaza.powersurfr.com/glenn<BR>
        "There is no longer any normal to be"<BR>
                                 -- Gary Numan<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 05 Nov 1999 09:38:30 -0500<BR>
From: Christopher Thrash <thrash@io.com><BR>
Subject: Re: GT Starship gearheadedness<BR>
<BR>
>Date: Thu, 4 Nov 1999 14:39:48 -0600<BR>
>From: "Joseph R. Dietrich" <yikes@evansville.net><BR>
>Subject: GT Starship gearheadedness (kinda long)<BR>
><BR>
>1) Nuclear Dampers. I can't, for the life of me, find what a nuclear damper<BR>
>is supposed to do in the starship combat system. The CA-15 has an Optimized<BR>
>Damper, so I assume that's one module with 10-mile coverage. But what does<BR>
>that translate to in the combat system?<BR>
<BR>
VE2 nuclear dampers prevent nuclear explosions (but not power generation)<BR>
within their radius of effect. Since the damage done by a nuclear-tipped<BR>
missile is a function of range to the target at detonation, this<BR>
effectively limits the amount of damage.<BR>
<BR>
It's not clear to me, however, that this is a good model of how nuclear<BR>
dampers work in Traveller. Traveller nuclear dampers are point-effect, not<BR>
area-effect, weapons that have to be targetted on each individual missile.<BR>
<BR>
>2) Spinal mounts. Oh, those spinal mounts. The CA-15 has a NPAW model T,<BR>
>which is roughly twice the size of the NPAW listed in the book (3,000 spaces<BR>
>v. 1500 or so), so I'm going to have to build one. I started by trying to<BR>
>reverse-engineer the NPAWs in the book, but found that I couldn't get the<BR>
>numbers to match! Oh, I get the stats all right, but I can't seem to make it<BR>
>fit in the mass and space alotted. I come up with:<BR>
><BR>
>   Weapon: 11853 tons mass, 2370 spaces (948 if you use cf/50<BR>
>      for volume instead of cf/20 as per GUPRS Vehicles, pg. 42)<BR>
>   Full Stablization: 115 tons mass, 237 spaces (95)<BR>
>   Power Plant: 1898 tons mass, 152 spaces<BR>
>   Energy Bank: 32 tons mass, 1 space<BR>
><BR>
>For a total of: 13898 tons mass, 2760 spaces (1196).<BR>
<BR>
You forgot long term access space for the power plant, I think: 304 spaces<BR>
+ 1196 = 1,500. Did you also figure using long tons (2,240 lbs) rather than<BR>
short tons (2,000 lbs)? That might account for the apparent weight difference.<BR>
<BR>
>As far as I can tell, it requires no crew stations -- as a hull weapon, it's<BR>
>fired from the bridge by the chief gunner or pilot (as per GT pg. 150). What<BR>
>am I missing here?<BR>
<BR>
My plan is to reinstate the crew requirement from HG: 1 crewman per 100<BR>
dtons of weapons. These are mostly technicians. Since the spinal mount is<BR>
fired by pointing the entire ship, it falls to the Chief Pilot to aim it.<BR>
There may or may not be a separate Gunnery Officer pulling the trigger.<BR>
<BR>
>3) Armor. Why is total surface area the area of the hull plus the *total*<BR>
>area of all the ships turrets and bays? I would think that, since the<BR>
>turrets and bays are at least partially imbedded in the hull, they wouldn't<BR>
>count as surface area. Bays especially, since they are now almost completely<BR>
>*inside* the hull.<BR>
<BR>
The surface area of turrets and bays is calculated for just that portion<BR>
which is outside the hull proper. It is in addition to the hull armor<BR>
primarily because that's the way VE2 handles turret superstructures; it<BR>
also avoids arguments about whether the hull is more vulnerable under the<BR>
turret (it's not). Bays in GT2/e went back to being Honking Big Turrets.<BR>
GT: Starships will present both versions (internal and external bays) as<BR>
options. Internal bays will not require separate armoring.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 5 Nov 1999 14:52:46 +0000<BR>
From: Timothy.Collinson@solent.ac.uk<BR>
Subject: Re: Anybody get Digest 1300?<BR>
<BR>
>Anybody get Digest 1300? Seems to have missed my mailbox...<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
I didn't.  Looks like it's vanished.<BR>
<BR>
tc<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 5 Nov 1999 09:54:52 -0500 (EST)<BR>
From: Kenji Schwarz <schwarz@fas.harvard.edu><BR>
Subject: Re: Common Weaponry (was RE: [OT] One Day In Peace)<BR>
<BR>
On Thu, 4 Nov 1999, Leonard Erickson wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> I just had an evil thought. A planet named Lesbos. And the reactions of<BR>
> characters to encountering someone from there. "Hi, My name is Mark.<BR>
> I'm a Lesbian."<BR>
<BR>
Sure.  Even in my paltry planetbound life I've met _several_ men from<BR>
modern (Terran) Lesvos who believe that this is simply the most hilarious<BR>
and sexy thing sayable.<BR>
<BR>
Kenji<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 5 Nov 1999 09:55:58 EST<BR>
From: JFZeigler@aol.com<BR>
Subject: Re: Solomani Rim data<BR>
<BR>
In a message dated 11/5/99 1:19:46 AM Eastern Standard Time, <BR>
shadow@krypton.rain.com writes:<BR>
<BR>
> Who says it has to be *liquid*?<BR>
>  <BR>
>  Allow me to point out a Luna-sized world totally covered with ice. It's<BR>
>  called Europa.  And Pluto is even *smaller*.<BR>
<BR>
Problem is, Hamilcar has a type 6 atmosphere too.  That isn't very<BR>
Europa-like.<BR>
<BR>
(Don't worry.  I've got a handwave for this one.  It actually leads to a<BR>
pretty interesting world description, although I have to invoke the Ancients<BR>
to do it. . .)<BR>
<BR>
- ----------<BR>
Jon F. Zeigler: Mathematician, computer geek, amateur historian, freelance<BR>
writer, occasional scribbler of bad poetry<BR>
"For any statement, no matter how innocuous, there exists a nonempty<BR>
set of people who will take offense at it."<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 5 Nov 1999 16:01:26 +0200<BR>
From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Jussi_Kenkkil=E4?= <Jussi.Kenkkila@helsinki.fi><BR>
Subject: Vs: Glitches after maintenance<BR>
<BR>
> Anyone have any nice glitches I can throw at them during the shakedown?<BR>
<BR>
Have one of the major components suffer a fake malfunction. This means that when they run a self-diagnostic program, it gets convinced that there's something wrong with some esoteric part. The characters can check it, "repair" it or even replace it, and the program is still convinced there's something wrong. Finding out the problem with the electronics involved in the self-diagnostics can take time. (Especially when the "malfunction" is on some vital piece of machinery, and it can't be used because of inbuilt safeties.)<BR>
<BR>
ps. I've run into similar trouble with "intelligent" photocopiers a few times.<BR>
<BR>
- -J2K<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 5 Nov 1999 09:58:44 -0500 (EST)<BR>
From: Kenji Schwarz <schwarz@fas.harvard.edu><BR>
Subject: Nonhuman languages [was: Re Names [Semi OT]]<BR>
<BR>
On Thu, 4 Nov 1999, William F. Hostman wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> Say, has Trav-Lang done anything on Virush or Newt languages?<BR>
<BR>
Nope.  At this point the list (now TravCult) is mostly occupied with<BR>
fleshing out a de-DGP'd Vilanidom.  Language is not the main focus of the<BR>
list in its new form, so if you're not into the joys of morphosyntax, come<BR>
on by.<BR>
<BR>
Perhaps I could ask a general question of the list:  What non-human<BR>
Traveller "race" would be most useful to have a language worked up for?<BR>
<BR>
Kenji<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 5 Nov 1999 09:02:36 -0600 <BR>
From: "Smart, David J (David)" <dasmart@lucent.com><BR>
Subject: Cultural Euphemisms (Was Subject: RE: Violent Outlet)<BR>
<BR>
Mr. Jaques posted:<BR>
><BR>
> Dear Folks -<BR>
><BR>
>>> What does "knock up" mean in Britain?<BR>
>><BR>
>>19) 'Knock you up'. In our country, to wake someone up in the morning so<BR>
>they won't be late.<BR>
><BR>
>In Oz, to pull up winded after strenuous activity, viz: "Whew! I'm glad<BR>
that's<BR>
>over! I'm feeling a bit knocked up!"<BR>
<BR>
Then there is the attractive female co-worker from west Texas who said, upon<BR>
being asked about a long, tough contract negotiation meeting with one of our<BR>
customers, "As soon as ah got outa there, I felt like I been rode hard and<BR>
put<BR>
up wet."<BR>
<BR>
She also raises horses, you see...<BR>
<BR>
The looks on everyone's faces in the staff meeting (including hers when she<BR>
realized what she said) were absolutely priceless.<BR>
<BR>
David<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 05 Nov 1999 09:06:21 -0600<BR>
From: Shimmergloom <shimmer@mhtc.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Middle Eastern Cyberpunk<BR>
<BR>
Carlos Alos-Ferrer wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> Three: When Gravity Fails, A Fire in the Sun, and The Exile Kiss. And<BR>
> there was a Cyberpunk supplement for that universe.<BR>
><BR>
> Carlos Alos-Ferrer<BR>
<BR>
Hardwired.  Used to have that around here somewhere.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
- --<BR>
- -----------------------------------------------<BR>
"How much XP do we get if we join the bandits?"<BR>
<BR>
      Shimmer<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 5 Nov 1999 10:16:18 -0500<BR>
From: "Jory Earl" <j-man@iname.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Dragon Magazine Archive<BR>
<BR>
IBIS = Imperial Bureau of Interstellar Service or something like that.  It<BR>
was a spy-based classic Traveller service that would make special operatives<BR>
for the Imperium.  During your service you are given anagathics in order to<BR>
keep you young.  Really cool service variant.<BR>
___________________________________________________________<BR>
 J-Man<BR>
 ICQ# 2843475<BR>
 New Hampshire - U.S.A.<BR>
 Email : j-man@iname.com<BR>
 Home Page : http://www.geocities.com/~jman037/<BR>
___________________________________________________________<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 5 Nov 1999 06:26:38 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: Islamic Observances in Interstellar Space (Was: Re: [OT] Cultural Differences)<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
> Black ICE [wombat@premier.net] wrote:<BR>
><BR>
>> Muslims who would undertake such would know that God (Allah) would<BR>
>> accept the intent, and not expect _perfect_ precision in directing<BR>
>> prayer to Mecca.<BR>
><BR>
> Correct, to a point.  Although each person varies in his or her capacities,<BR>
> even beginning to attempt such a determination may be beyond most 3I era<BR>
> Muslims.  You are correct that one's intention is the most pertinent aspect<BR>
> of any action ~ not necessarily just the intent to face the appropriate<BR>
> direction when beginning prayer, but the intention to please Allah by<BR>
> keeping the prayers in the first place.  Each believer would likely rise to<BR>
> his or her own level of accuracy, just as they do now.<BR>
<BR>
And I'm sure that as (I am told) many mosques have a plaque or other<BR>
indicator indicating the direction of of Mecca now, offworld mosques<BR>
might well have some sort of indicator controlled by a computer. <BR>
<BR>
For personal use, something incorporating a gps type system might work.<BR>
<BR>
I do agree that the direction would too little to worry about when<BR>
taking even a jump 6 in the Marches. I was being a bit disingenious<BR>
with regard to prayers in jump, knowing that some scholars will nitpick<BR>
doctrines to death, and it might be argued that one couldn't know the<BR>
right direction while in jump.<BR>
<BR>
As a practical matter, it should be possible to ask the Astrogator<BR>
which way Earth is, and ask the captain to orient the ship in such a<BR>
manner that one can easily pray in the right direction (ie so that the<BR>
"proper direction" is towards the ceiling or the like.<BR>
<BR>
>> I would expect that recycled water would not be considered kosher,<BR>
><BR>
> I might have to disagree, but neither would I consider myself of an<BR>
> extremely strict orthodoxy.  Once anything has been rendered into its<BR>
> components elements and remade into a new form, I would posit that most<BR>
> "modern" Muslims would accept it as halal; I would.  If not, then one should<BR>
> not drink from a well, or even be able to eat anything that hadn't been<BR>
> touched in even some remote fashion by things haram.  There are things in<BR>
> the water table that make me shudder to think... and I don't mean just the<BR>
> fluoride.  I can't speak for Judaism, though.<BR>
<BR>
I expect that it'd depend on just how Orthodox the Jew in question was.<BR>
And on what sort of ruling Orthodox rabbis make on the subject.<BR>
<BR>
>> As to how one determines the Islamic calendar dates while outside the<BR>
>> Solar system, I would expect that, within sight of Sol and her planets<BR>
>> (in M:1100, that could be quite some distance), direct observation of<BR>
>> Sol, Terra, and Luna, plus calculation of light's travel time from Sol<BR>
>> to the point of observation, would fulfill the requirement for "direct<BR>
>> observation" of the new moon.<BR>
><BR>
> I would suspect that 3I Muslims would have to follow their own local lunar<BR>
> calendar for most things other than keeping track of comparable dates to<BR>
> discuss intelligently with others.  There is much discord amongst the Ummah<BR>
> about "which moon" to follow even today for determining events, such as Eid.<BR>
> There are hadith, IMO, that rule on the subject which state clearly that one<BR>
> should follow the sightings of the moon in one's own city or region, *not*<BR>
> the sightings of the moon elsewhere.  I suppose it would be an interesting<BR>
> debate, though, would it not?<BR>
><BR>
> This, of course, becomes difficult on a moonless sphere, just as prayer time<BR>
> calculation becomes very burdensome close to the poles of Terra.  I've<BR>
> pondered it myself, but have sought no scholar's futwa on the topic yet.  :)<BR>
> If/when I ever do, I'll be sure to share with the list.  I suspect that the<BR>
> now-common, though in-authentic, practice of following the sightings of the<BR>
> moon in Mecca or Medina might gain even wider acceptance, although<BR>
> time/distance will make even that more nigh impossible.<BR>
<BR>
Think there's a chance that for those places, they'd go by the<BR>
calculated time of the new moon?<BR>
<BR>
BTW, our moon is likely to be very unusual. Consider the situation on<BR>
Mars. There are two moons, and you get "new moon" once a *day* for one<BR>
of them. And as I recall the other will be "new" at least 2-3 times a<BR>
week. <BR>
<BR>
Then there's the places like Regina, which *are* Moons. At least if you<BR>
lived on the "inner" hemisphere, "new moon" would be easy to determine.<BR>
It'd occur as the shadow of your moon crossed the center line of the<BR>
gas giant you were orbiting. Alas, it'd occur about once a (standard)<BR>
week, and would always be at *midnight* local time. <BR>
<BR>
>> Besides, at least some Islamic rules (such as daytime fasting during<BR>
>> Ramadan) are relaxed for those who are traveling, especially when<BR>
>> travelling in service to the Islamic faith.<BR>
><BR>
> Traveling is a relative thing...  If you live aboard a starship for most (or<BR>
> all) of your life, are you still traveling?  I don't think so, but we all<BR>
> seek our own excuses in life.  ;)  But, yes, there are many issues with<BR>
> which to grapple and study on when we attain the stars.<BR>
<BR>
Yep. See some of the ones above. I'm sure the imams(?) will come up<BR>
with *something*. <BR>
<BR>
> It's always nice to meet someone who is conversant in a belief not<BR>
> necessarily their own.  Well met, Black ICE.<BR>
<BR>
I'm not as conversant as I'd like, but perhaps someday.<BR>
<BR>
Salaam aliekum!<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 5 Nov 1999 06:43:51 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: Islamic Observances in Interstellar Space (Was: Re: [OT] Cultural Differences)<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
>     I have to say here, that maybe praying in the general direction of earth<BR>
> might be the best thing to do, as that is where the Holy Land is.<BR>
<BR>
From anyplace beyond Lunar Orbit, the difference betwen "towards Earth"<BR>
and "towards Mecca" would require precision instruments to determine.<BR>
From another star, I'm not sure it could be done. <BR>
<BR>
The trick is determining "towards Earth". Or "towards Sol" if you are<BR>
outside the solar system.<BR>
<BR>
>     Well as a Jew, who tends to keep as kosher as he can, I would have to<BR>
> say, that any water that is clean is kosher, no matter where it comes from.<BR>
> For example in WWII, Jews who were fighting in the war, or in the Nazi Death<BR>
> Camps were released from having to keep kosher, as it could not be done.  I<BR>
> think in the 3I, that the same would happen.  I.e. that sometimes water is<BR>
> water, & food is food, & you can make ammends later on, when you are still<BR>
> alive, & if you die before then, well at least you tried to live & you will<BR>
> be forgiven, but the people that forced you off keeping kosher will have<BR>
> hell to pay.<BR>
>     As for people that follow Islam, I can remember my uncle, who is an<BR>
> Iman<sp?> once told me that durring WWII it was OK for people to eat unclean<BR>
> foods, inorder to stay alive, & that the British Troops who faught in North<BR>
> Africa who followed Islam, offen had to eat pork because there was no other<BR>
> food around, & while it was not good, from a short religious point of view,<BR>
> it was good in a long term religious POV, as they were fighting against a<BR>
> great evil.  And, he said that they all went to paradise due to the fact<BR>
> that they fought against the Nazis, & they dwell there, along with the Jews,<BR>
> & others who fell fighting the Nazis.<BR>
>     OBTrav:  What would be the food & drink restrictions in the 3I?<BR>
<BR>
Well, as far as kosher goes, you'll need a ruling by a rabbi. But given<BR>
the way the rules are laid out, animal products should be fairly easy<BR>
to classify as kosher/non-kosher. The hard part will be if there aren't<BR>
any native, edible, animals that chew cuds or have the right sort of<BR>
hooves. Likewise, finding things that meet the definitions for other<BR>
types of creature may be difficult.<BR>
<BR>
And I wouldn't know where to begin with plants.<BR>
<BR>
>>I would suspect that 3I Muslims would have to follow their own local lunar<BR>
>>calendar for most things other than keeping track of comparable dates to<BR>
>>discuss intelligently with others.  There is much discord amongst the Ummah<BR>
>>about "which moon" to follow even today for determining events, such as<BR>
> Eid.<BR>
>>There are hadith, IMO, that rule on the subject which state clearly that<BR>
> one<BR>
>>should follow the sightings of the moon in one's own city or region, *not*<BR>
>>the sightings of the moon elsewhere.  I suppose it would be an interesting<BR>
>>debate, though, would it not?<BR>
><BR>
>     Yes, it would be.  But, also the Moslims might go to a solar/standard<BR>
> calander, just to take care of that problem.<BR>
<BR>
That I find unlikely. More likely, though not completely likely, is<BR>
that they might go to a calculation based calendar. In essence, they'd<BR>
*calculate* when the new moon would be occuring at Mecca.<BR>
<BR>
>>This, of course, becomes difficult on a moonless sphere, just as prayer<BR>
> time<BR>
>>calculation becomes very burdensome close to the poles of Terra.  I've<BR>
>>pondered it myself, but have sought no scholar's futwa on the topic yet.<BR>
> :)<BR>
>>If/when I ever do, I'll be sure to share with the list.  I suspect that the<BR>
>>now-common, though in-authentic, practice of following the sightings of the<BR>
>>moon in Mecca or Medina might gain even wider acceptance, although<BR>
>>time/distance will make even that more nigh impossible.<BR>
<BR>
Not so silly question. What did that Saudi who flew on the Space<BR>
Shuttle do about prayer times? After all, the Shuttle has a sunrise<BR>
every 90 to 100 minutes. <BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 5 Nov 1999 06:58:33 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: Hanging more than once<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
> In Lous McMasters Bujold 'Komarr' , they talk about "Lord<BR>
> Vor-something, the twice hung", where the crime he did (not<BR>
> mentioned) warrented the lord in question to be executed twice.<BR>
<BR>
> (I allways thought Barrayan politics and law was a hoot, with Lord<BR>
> Midnight the horse, who always voted "Neigh", the incenderary cat<BR>
> plot, the horse shit war as well as less fun stuff liek Mad Yuri's<BR>
> war, and the defenstration of the privy council).<BR>
<BR>
Or Count sombody or other and his 200 cooks. <BR>
<BR>
> ObTrav: a planet has an obscure legeal precident, based on actions<BR>
> done a few centuries ago, yet has to be observed. This could be a<BR>
> Horse who is a reconised member of the privy council, or the multible<BR>
> execution rule.<BR>
<BR>
Or, as in the latest Vorkosigan book, an ancient laws may provide a<BR>
means of dealing with a *new* problem without having to pass a new law.<BR>
<BR>
For those who haven't read it, I'll just say it involves a count trying<BR>
to use uterine replicators to "mass produce" people for his county. The<BR>
solution is both appropriate and *priceless*. <BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 5 Nov 1999 06:18:18 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: Re: A Well-Regulated Militia<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
> Sword Worlder <swordworlder@clinic.net> writes:<BR>
><BR>
>>I doubt that the general populace had canon or warships or heavy cavalry.<BR>
><BR>
> While you're correct WRT warships, quite a few cannons were in<BR>
> private hands in the colonies before, during, and after the War for<BR>
> Independence.  The only impediment to ownership was cost.  As for<BR>
> heavy cavalry, no one, *including* the British had them at that time.<BR>
<BR>
> As a point of interest, the only impediment to owning<BR>
> Revolutionary/Civil War era cannons *TODAY* is cost.  There are<BR>
> virtually no goverment restrictions on muzzleloading, black powder<BR>
> weapons.  A friend of mine near Austin, TX owns a 6-pounder.  While<BR>
> the barrel is made of modern, high-strength steel, the carriage and<BR>
> all accessories are vintage Civil War manufacture.<BR>
<BR>
Another item for my "If I win the Lottery" list. <BR>
<BR>
Would you care to be invited to fire a 40 pounder on the coast? Say<BR>
from Battery Russell if they let us? :-)<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 05 Nov 1999 06:58:40<BR>
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Islamic Observances in Interstellar Space<BR>
<BR>
At 05:51 AM 11/5/1999 PST, you wrote:<BR>
<BR>
>There's an issue of National Geographic from around 20-30 years back.<BR>
>It has a Moslem documenting his pilgrimage with phots and writing a<BR>
>nice article as well. There's a good picture of the Kaaba (the big<BR>
>square building that houses the stone) and I think there was even a<BR>
>good picture of the stone itself. <BR>
<BR>
Another good reason to get the National Geo CD-ROMs...<BR>
- -- <BR>
<BR>
Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com<BR>
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 05 Nov 1999 07:14:56<BR>
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Wild blue claims<BR>
<BR>
At 05:56 AM 11/5/1999 PST, you wrote:<BR>
<BR>
>Actually, that's more due to TL differences. With the tech the Iraqis<BR>
>had, they *were* camoflauged and/or "behind cover".<BR>
><BR>
>Imagine their shock when it became clear that as far as *our* gear was<BR>
>concerned, they had neither. <BR>
<BR>
The Iraqis proved to be very clever.  They would haul wrecked tanks into<BR>
fighting positions, and light fires in the engine compartments, while<BR>
driving a working tank into the posotion previously occupied by the junked<BR>
vehicle.  When the Coalition planes came back, they'd hit the same wreck<BR>
over an over again.<BR>
<BR>
Inside Iraq, airfield personel became very adept at painting craters on<BR>
runways, to convince USAF photo recon specialists that the runway way<BR>
indeed out of service.<BR>
<BR>
An Iraqi armor commander, captured on the second day of the war, put it best:<BR>
<BR>
"I entered Kuwait with 48 T-72s.  After a month of air attacks, I had 45.<BR>
After an hour of combat with the M1, I had none."<BR>
- -- <BR>
<BR>
Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com<BR>
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 5 Nov 1999 09:17:32 -0600 (CST)<BR>
From: "Jason Kemp" <Jason.Kemp@tdh.state.tx.us><BR>
Subject: Cons On Ice Scenario Idea (was Re: Border Guards)<BR>
<BR>
From: Black ICE <wombat@premier.net><BR>
<BR>
> ObTrav:  Try this for a deeply unpleasant sentence:  A day before a<BR>
> convicted felon has finished serving his/her/its time in prison, put<BR>
> said convict into cold sleep for a century or two.  Then thaw the<BR>
> convict out, have him/her/it serve the last day of the sentence, and<BR>
> then be released.  Temporal exile....<BR>
<BR>
Now to turn this into an adventure idea:<BR>
<BR>
PCs come across a STL generation vessel, with several thousand <BR>
members of some minor race held in Cold Sleep.  Probably no info <BR>
available to translate the linguistics of the computer records, and <BR>
everything on board indicates that this is a colony ship of some form <BR>
or another.<BR>
<BR>
If PCs initiate the automated unthawing processes, about a thousand<BR>
people are released, and start rampaging.  Further investigating<BR>
may reveal that these are convicts who are being sent to found a<BR>
penal colony due to inhumane acts of an incredibly vile nature (at<BR>
least according to their culture, anyway,) and their homeworld has<BR>
forced them into this exile as punishment.<BR>
<BR>
The PCs are horribly outnumbered by a bunch of TL 8 goons, and may<BR>
possibly be taken by surprise.  If they can get away, (after a very<BR>
exciting escape sequence,) notifying the Imperial authorities should<BR>
take care of the colony ship drifting between the stars.  But if the<BR>
leader of the convicts can manage to keep the PCs alive, then there's<BR>
the trip back to the cons' homeworld, where the leader hopes to exact <BR>
vengeance against those who did this to him, and the PCs have the <BR>
only ship capable of FTL transit that he has access to.  :)<BR>
<BR>
Just a thought,<BR>
Jason<BR>
<BR>
=============================<BR>
Jason Kemp, ADS Programmer IV<BR>
(512)458-7111 ext. 3375<BR>
<BR>
Internet Address: jason.kemp@tdh.state.tx.us<BR>
==============================<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #1313<BR>
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